Finite speedy solution for Ghosts Age by veky - python coding challenges

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Finite solution in Speedy category for Ghosts Age by veky

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Feb. 22, 2014

Comments:

blueBlood on June 17, 2014, 6:23 p.m.
This is totally brute-force.. :(

veky on June 17, 2014, 6:39 p.m.
Is there a problem with that? :-) BTW, how do you think I wrote that code? :-P

blueBlood on June 17, 2014, 6:45 p.m.
Well I'm just a novice :)

veky on June 17, 2014, 8:24 p.m.
That didn't stop you from sending me down two thumbs. :-P Well, your opinion, your life, I guess.

blueBlood on June 18, 2014, 5:17 p.m.
Made that up :) Sorry for that earlier..

ArchTauruS on Aug. 14, 2014, 9:26 a.m.
finite solution, infinite originality

veky on Aug. 14, 2014, 1:06 p.m.
Infinite kindness or finite sarcasm? :-DD

ArchTauruS on Aug. 19, 2014, 2:58 a.m.
finite kindness ;)

veky on Aug. 20, 2014, 5:23 p.m.
Infinite honesty. :-D

jose.limas on Aug. 26, 2014, 12:41 a.m.
that does not compute the value...is not a fast algorithm to compute what is asked, is just cheating...

veky on Aug. 26, 2014, 5:47 a.m.
<blockquote> that does not compute the value... </blockquote> "That" is a bit misleading. Do you at least agree that I had to somehow compute those values to write the above code? <blockquote> is not a fast algorithm to compute what is asked </blockquote> Care to timeit? :-P <blockquote> is just cheating... </blockquote> May I ask where you put the line between caching and cheating? Or is all caching cheating in your view?

bryukh on Aug. 29, 2014, 9:34 a.m.
<blockquote> May I ask where you put the line between caching and cheating? </blockquote> +100!

veky on Aug. 29, 2014, 12:28 p.m.
Maybe you should make it a button. Especially if ! is a factorial. :-DD

bryukh on Aug. 29, 2014, 10:44 p.m.
I've asked colleagues for that (Uber vote button for bryukh), but they think it's a cheat ;-) They even don't allow me get 21st level.

veky on Aug. 30, 2014, 6:04 a.m.
Ah, that's too bad. Poor you. :-P

efabens on Sept. 9, 2014, 4:20 p.m.
It works, it's execution is fast. But there is no way to know that this wasn't just solved by hand and entered by hand (Which is dog slow). Clever but not how I define the spirit of this game. Which may be different than how you do.

veky on Sept. 9, 2014, 6:47 p.m.
<blockquote> not how I define the spirit of this game. </blockquote> And that's worth -3 for you? Ok, whatever. But I must laugh loudly at this particular piece of nonsense: <blockquote> there is no way to know that this wasn't just solved by hand and entered by hand </blockquote> Well, here is a nice puzzle for you: look at some other solutions of mine here. There are quite a few of them under 20 tokens. How exactly do you know that they weren't written by randomly assembling up to 20 valid Python tokens until I got something which passes the tests? Note that if I were just a bit clever about code generation (Huffman coding of alternatives, Markov chaining of bitoken probabilities, Bayes formula for partial successes...), it would be a lot quicker, not to mention three orders of magnitude less debilitating, than doing what you insinuated above by hand. But still, you know that I didn't do that, right? :-P

efabens on Sept. 9, 2014, 10:41 p.m.
Of course. And my first thought when trying to come up with a solution was figure out a way to build a cache. But Couldn't figure out any way except hard-coding. Which while solved with a program (could still be by hand :P) doesn't actually show a programmatic solution (and certainly not pythonic). However because you responded to my comment and were friendly, I'll give you 1 thumb up (hey a four thumb swing). I have been considering hard coding all solutions as dictionaries though, there aren't usually that many asserts, to prove the solution is correct. I can probably scrape the error message and build each one iteratively until it passes :P (though i would have to do it locally). Thanks for the banter :)

veky on Sept. 10, 2014, 7:42 a.m.
Well, look at him. I say he talks nonsense, and ridiculize him, and he says I'm friendly. :-D [The truth is, I am. But not many people can see it in this context. That's why I like you.:] Anyway, yes, as I'm sure you've noticed, I like to point out some problems in the design of CheckiO, which are then "solved" by turning them into new ones. Here's a bit of history. [Note: I have a memory with very low false negative rate, but a lot higher false positive rate. If someone remembers differently, please correct me.] In the beginning of time, tests were hardcoded in the task, as simple asserts. It didn't take much time until some smartypants realized that sometimes these tests don't cover the problem area very well, and started writing solutions tailored only to them. So, randomly generated tests were added. Now there was a big problem of nondeterminism of passing or failing (note that once you publish your code, you can't unpublish it, even today, so people were looking at others' code and wondering "how did he pass, and I didn't with the same code?"). Besides, for many tasks it was very hard to write a reasonable generator of reasonable tests. Now came the heavy marketing of possibility that every CheckiO user makes their own tasks, using GitHub. Of course, it was even harder for Joe Random to write sensible randomizer of tests. But it was noticed that test makers usually know their problem domain pretty well, so they can write good tailored tests covering special cases and usual traps. So tests were again made deterministic, but secret - not in the code you see, but in some repository far away. Of course, on the Net nothing is secret: it was on GitHub, after all, and with some clever searching skills, you could actually pinpoint it. That, in an effort to level the playing field, led to CheckiO publicizing the link to the repository anyway (at the bottom of the task story). Parallel to that, task authors were realizing that GitHub repo is a fluid thing: you can change it, clarify the story, beautify pictures, and - why not? - add some new tests. So when someone had the idea of a new corner of problem domain not thought about before, they added clarification to the story, and added a test about it - just like it should be in the real world. :-) The big problem now was the fact that you can't unpublish your code on CheckiO. So we were kinda back to square one (if you're counting from zero:): there was a big nondeterminism along the time axis, people were looking at others' solutions (made long time ago) and wondering "how did that pass?". So, CiO again did the only 'sensible' thing: "you can't unpublish your code, but we can" - they periodically reran old solutions with new tests, and removed these that didn't pass. As you can imagine, that produced an outrage. :-D The imbalance between task makers and task solvers became too high. It was possible, if a task maker didn't like some approach to solution, to completely reframe the task and remove your solution. Many of these events happened, as it usually is in history, more because of ignorance than because of ill will (somebody didn't even realize in advance there were other understandings of the task text), but that didn't fix the bad taste in some mouths. [Note that at this moment, task makers didn't have to be a member of CheckiO team, where the imbalance would be expected, even if still perceived as unfair - they were ordinary users, just like the rest of us solvers. They were hunting thumbs, nice comments, and other positive reinforcements of social network that is CiO. And the fact that they can't lose them whatever they do to the task, while a solver must say goodbye to his ranking and thumbs if they must make a new solution, made the imbalance unbearable.] I was among the loudest protesters, since my solutions were often the victims of such reinterpretations: as I said above, more by ignorance than by ill will, but still. So I demanded: either give solvers the possibility to edit the solutions of changed tasks without losing likes and rankings, or make it so that editing a task produces a completely new task that starts from zero, same as it is now with solutions. Since CiO team knew I'm an icon here, they had no choice but to give in. They chose the first option (which is probably better than the second, otherwise we'd have a maze of twisty little tasks, all alike:), but since it could be easily abused, you had to write email to admins, with a detailed explanation why your solution (or task interpretation) was reasonable and why it was unfairly hurt by the change... Again I wrote, and said that to ease the job of judging which tests are "fair game", I'd like some formal preconditions in the task, giving exactly the boundaries of the problem domain, so we can all know where new tests can appear. They listened again, and so more and more tasks started growing preconditions on the input. Which is good, but... "Precondition" might mean different things to different people. Many of them got the completely wrong idea that it was somehow about performance, and the main reason for preconditions was to somehow give an upper bound for the size of the task input. They didn't get that impression arbitrarily: after all, in many similar problem-solving settings, it is reasonable to say, for example, N<=10**5. However, the main reason for that is not performance, but trying to relieve the programmer of thinking about stupid integer overflows that result from the wrong paradigm. Python has the correct paradigm;-), that enforces no arbitrary limits after which math mysteriously stops working. Calculating with bigger ints is slower, as it should be, but it's still correct. Of course tests will still have some reasonably big N, but precising in advance what "reasonably big" means is missing the point. Where I wanted "N is a positive int divisible by 7 (otherwise the task text makes no sense)", they thought I wanted "N is at most a million (otherwise the solution might be too slow)". You see where this has lead: many tasks became finite, since when you say N is an int between 1 and 100, there are only finitely many of them. When people saw these tasks, they thought making finite tasks was encouraged (since many up to then infinite tasks became finite, and these weird precondition-seeking types seemed to be happy about it), and started actively making tasks such as decoding Roman numerals, retrieving electron configurations of known elements, or ghost age estimation, that were finite by design. Some of them even had so ridiculously small space of possible problems, that it was much easier just to solve particular cases by hand. But not this one (as we've showed above:). This is an example of the task that could, with just a bit of effort, be infinite, yet it was made finite for probably the wrong reasons. That's why I decided to ridiculize it, in the shape of the above solution. (On the other hand, for periodic table of elements, I did the opposite thing, calculating instead of just writing results for almost everything - precisely because there the finiteness was externally given, and not the fault of the task setter.) ... There, hope the things are a bit clearer now. And now I really need to get some sleep. :-)

efabens on Sept. 13, 2014, 7:30 p.m.
I had no idea the history!

akiko1 on Oct. 13, 2014, 7:15 a.m.
meh

veky on Oct. 13, 2014, 10:18 a.m.
Agreed. :-) Still not a reason for -2 though. Have you read the comments?

maurice.makaay on Nov. 15, 2014, 1:44 a.m.
meh... And for a better reason: the number 2 on the list at least didn't make my finger hurt from scrolling to the end. -1 for you, +1 for the number 2.

veky on Nov. 15, 2014, 2:35 a.m.
You should learn to use technology, instead of blaming me for things you did wrong. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_key">End key</a> is not something very advanced. Also, why did you scroll to the end anyway? What did you expect to see there? :-)

maurice.makaay on Nov. 15, 2014, 11:12 a.m.
I never lose hope.

veky on Nov. 15, 2014, 2:42 p.m.
Neither do I. :-)

saxtouri on Jan. 13, 2015, 9:40 p.m.
I have to admit, this is O(1) time, O(N) space !!!

veky on Jan. 14, 2015, 5:02 p.m.
Well, O(1) is just amortized. :-) Anyway, this is the point: task is finite without good reason. So I decide to mock it. :-)

veky on Oct. 14, 2015, 9:20 p.m.
For people who like computation: a <a href="http://www.checkio.org/mission/ghosts-age/publications/veky/python-3/incredible/?ordering=most_voted">special treat</a>. ;-)

isykes on July 11, 2018, 2:01 p.m.
Very clever. Took me long time to calculate the values for my equivalent dict. No one can criticise this on basis of not understanding it.

veky on July 12, 2018, 5:30 a.m.
May I ask how did you calculate them? Hopefully not by hand. :-o <blockquote> No one can criticise this on basis of not understanding it. </blockquote> LOL. :-)

lxf42 on May 20, 2022, 2:59 p.m.
I see room for optimization ... you could remove the entries that are not checked and make your code shorter, LOL

veky on May 25, 2022, 9:10 a.m.
If I really wanted to make my code shorter, this is not really the route I would take. :-D [<a href="https://py.checkio.org/mission/ghosts-age/publications/veky/python-3/incredible/?ordering=most_voted">https://py.checkio.org/mission/ghosts-age/publications/veky/python-3/incredible/?ordering=most_voted</a> looks much more like it.;]

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